Curse

apocalypse_xx · Aug 10, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Let me ask one simple question. On this 8 man team, you mean to tell me that everyone is a skilled player and deserve FOW if they complete these missions. Only one problem here, even if they are not paying for a guided service (which really would become all the rage), lots of people do not contribute to winning teams at times. It sounds to me like you think everything is unjustified, hard to earn titles and armor. I would like to see you cap all 180 elites like I did with my monk, then tell me it means nothing. One last thing, earning the materials for FOW armor is not that difficult really for a skilled player or a skilled trader. FOW armor is nothing more than a gold sink...and a pretty good one at that.

extra bacon · Aug 10, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

can't be bothered reading through all the posts so not sure if anyone has already proposed something similar, but here's a suggestion for making it a bit more challenging to get FoW armour:

make the quests which lead to the forgemaster only available after all the other quests in FoW have been completed.

Big_Iron · Aug 10, 2006, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

I should probably have put more emphasis on that word, you need skill to play PVE decently, but you dont REQUIRE any skill to beat it or most other PVE related things, you can just join a group or use a known build.

One word...IWAY.

Anyway, ON TOPIC...doesn't the proposal by the OP sound a lot like Factions? Where the end game rewards can be green weapons and 15k armor? Yeah, you need the mats for it, but you still have to complete the game to have access to it.

CorstedPirate · Aug 10, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet

One word...IWAY.

Anyway, ON TOPIC...doesn't the proposal by the OP sound a lot like Factions? Where the end game rewards can be green weapons and 15k armor? Yeah, you need the mats for it, but you still have to complete the game to have access to it.

No, he wants it to have no cost other than the time to do a couple of missions. I think he forgot about the Divine Path armor, and that you must complete the game to have access to it.

Exoudeous · Aug 10, 2006, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Didnt get my FoW armor for status, got It cause I liked the way it looked.

as for the topic, you can come up with all the crazy ways you want to get an armor, but no matter what you do, some one will find a way to abuse it

Molte · Aug 10, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

The root of the problem is the buyers and sellers of gold in GW. More needs to be done to stop it.

Where is the problem?
I have just as good equipment as someone that goes on ebay and buy gold.

oh yea, thats right..their weapon is sparkling and mine is not. woohooo... .. .. .

aron searle · Aug 10, 2006, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet

One word...IWAY.

Very True

Quote:

Anyway, ON TOPIC...doesn't the proposal by the OP sound a lot like Factions? Where the end game rewards can be green weapons and 15k armor? Yeah, you need the mats for it, but you still have to complete the game to have access to it.

I once had to go AFK on the last mission due to real life, when i came back the mission was complete and i had masters.

This is what i mean by skill is not required, its not broken, but simply due to its nature it is easily abused.

Medion · Aug 10, 2006, 10:39 AM // 10:39

I don't have a problem with FoW-armour whatsoever at the moment, but if they would add something along the lines of the OP's idea, I wouldn't mind. Though I want those missions/quests to be 'short'. I don't think it shows skill you can be online for 5 hours non-stop to finish all the FoW quests at once.
As long as the missions/quests only take half an hour to an hour, it's ok with me.
I would prefer other updates though..

Caged Fury · Aug 10, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exoudeous

Didnt get my FoW armor for status, got It cause I liked the way it looked.

Yup, me too. I didn't plan on getting FoW for any of my characters. But after completing the game I had nothing to do. I switched to playing NWN but couldn't get into it and returned to GW. Getting FoW armour was just one of those things to do to occupy myself with. FoW has no benefits over a 1.5K armour, and to an extent not even looks. That is, some (IMO) FoW and 15K look more ugly than their 1.5K variant. When I see others wearing FoW or 15K armour, I don't see them as elite or some kind of status. I may just think "Ooooh, that's a pretty outfit!".

Mithie · Aug 10, 2006, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomslay

The Cartographers title means you spent hours finding every last pixel, WooPee!!

And even though I have the Protector title on multiple chars Ive been told by the leet PVPers that they could do them blindfolded with one hand while being shocked by a monkey.

Well... maybe not while being shocked by a monkey...

Thargor · Aug 10, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

I find threads like this very funny. First let me thank you for the good laugh.
So after reading all of this thread I find myself wondering one thing...
How hard is it to really understand this game? There is NOTHING in the game that shows how good you are except the way you play. Armor is looks and nothing more. FoW armor is the same as droks armor just alot more expensive. And as for the suggestion of a string of missions to get armor.. well that is a pretty lame idea and let me explain why. There are 2 missions in factions called "ELITE missions" and the party size for these missions are 12 people. There is a build right on this very site for a 3 man team that can beat one of these so called "ELITE" missions, that leaves 9 open slots that they could drag less skilled players along for a fee so they have a chance to get that green at the end.
Basicly what I am saying here is this, If you want to have a status symbol let it be the way you play, not something you wear or hold. The only thing in this game that can not be bought on ebay is SKILL. Want to impress someone, show your skill. Everything else is meaningless.

Big_Iron · Aug 10, 2006, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thargor

If you want to have a status symbol let it be the way you play, not something you wear or hold. The only thing in this game that can not be bought on ebay is SKILL. Want to impress someone, show your skill. Everything else is meaningless.

Wow. Very well said. Nothing makes you feel better in game than having your team compliment you on your gameplay. It doesn't matter if it's PvE or PvP, having your team's respect is the highest status you can get in the game.

Stockholm · Aug 10, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalklear64

Put a 3 fold requirement on entering said area to get the armor. A set amount of exp is needed, a set amount of time played on that character is needed, and a set amount of time for having that character created is needed.

So, only those with (sample numbers) 2 Million Exp, 300 Hours on their character, and a 6 month lifespan on their character, could enter this area in addition to the requirements you already put in place. Yes, I know none of those alone are measurements of skill or whatever, but if you add all three of those, chances are people will play their character enough to kill the 6 month time span (added to prevent afking while logged in to hit the 300 hour mark) and while playing for 6 months a normal person playing 2 hours a day can easily make that. The exp is added so that the person had to have at least gone outside and either killed or watched someone kill some monsters.

Are you one of those selling the FoW armour on e-bay? Sounds to me like you want to give the e-bayers a chance to raise there prices by making it harder.

lyra_song · Aug 10, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

The reason your ideas are getting flamed and you are getting flamed by some people Doomslay, is because some people will disagree with you that Obsidian armor should mean ANYTHING.

To think that armor in THIS game means anything "elite" is, imo delusional.

The things that make me feel like a good player. Those that mark me. Are my actions, my successes, outside anything anyone could ever take away or depreciate.

Solo monking an all assassin team and surviving ^_^

Yakumo · Aug 10, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

You want armor to reflect your skill? Easy, make it so that you have to do some pvp gameplay (like AB/Aspenwood/Jade Quarry, of course it's different one for other chapters) and you earn faction points (like Balthazar/Kurzick/Luxon points). Then you exchange these points for armor so you cant buy the armor or transfer the points to someone else.

Currently, Luxon and Kurzick armors require Jadeite and Amber. These can be obtained in a number of ways. One of these ways is from exchanging faction points earnt in Fort Aspenwood.

Already leechers are abusing this current system. If it isn't improved to only reward those who actively participate, then you'll just end up with: 'New l33t armor' = leecher.

I don't do much PvPing, so I don't know if leeching for Balthazar faction points is as common in RA, TA, etc.

I personally see the high end armors as nothing more than just eye candy. It doesn't reflect a persons skill or ability. I perfer to judge those from their actions and how they play. You can tell a lot more from the way they conduct themselves and interact with others than you can from what they are wearing.

Yanman.be · Aug 10, 2006, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Stop thinking FoW = skill. It does not show it (anymore). Buy it for as moneysink.

Relambrien · Aug 10, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

I appreciate the OP's worry about people that break the rules (Ebay) getting armor that suggests they're really good. There's just one problem with that, and don't take this as an insult, flame etc...

Not many people believe that armor is a status symbol anymore.

FoW armor was never meant to be a status symbol, merely a goldsink and a way to show wealth. However, people began to regard those who could afford FoW armor as those of a higher status, as they're much richer than the average player and therefore must have been REALLY good in order to get the money. However, this is no longer true, as Ebay, farming, etc. made the armor much easier to get. I'm not saying it's easy to get, but easy enough that it's not really a status symbol.

Now that we've established that armor isn't a status symbol, we can say there isn't a problem with the current FoW armor. Not many people will look at someone in FoW armor and say "Hey I'm gonna invite him just cuz he has FoW armor and so must be better than those who don't" or something to that extent. This is especially true in PvP, but I'm not gonna get into that as this thread is about PvE problems.

In other words, the last paragraph said that people won't be invited to a group based on their armor. Which is true, for the most part.

Now, the OP wanted to make this new armor because of people exploiting and showing their "skill" through FoW armor, when they could've just Ebayed, got donations from their guild, scammed, etc. This then causes the problem of people with little skill being invited because they're supposed to have great skill.

However, this is not a problem, because it doesn't happen. People aren't invited solely-based on their armor. The only real way to show skill is to play and have people see you play. For PvP, rank is more of a time-invested indicator, but then again, the more time you invest, the better you're likely to get. For PvE, the only true way to show skill anymore is to actually play and show it through playing.

To sum up everything I just said...

The OP wanted to instate a system that would solve the problem of "noobs" being thought to have more skill than they do because of their armor. With some tweaks, the system may have worked, but it would still be exploited one way or the other. The good news, however, is that the problem the OP wanted to solve has actually been solved, by the people who caused it in the first place. As more "noobs" began to get FoW armor, it began to stop representing skill. There may have been a problem back in the past, but there isn't any longer. So while I respect your desire to solve a problem, OP, unfortunately this problem's already been solved.

SpeedyKQ · Aug 10, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Oh come on, many people strive for the elite armors as a way to show off their accomplishments. Just because some people game the system with afking or ebaying doesn't mean the rest of us don't want to earn the rewards and take pride in showing them off.

So I agree with the OP that it is good to put elite armor in places that take some skill to get to. I loved how they put armorers on the Divine Path in Factions. If I designed Factions, I would have made Urgoz and the Deep available to everyone, but put the 15K Kurzick and Luxon crafters at the end of them. It would make the armor that much more special, and it would make beating those missions that much more special too.

I want challenges, and ways to show off my successes, and I really like the OP's proposal. I agree with most everyone else that you'll never be able to evaluate a player's skill just by looking at their armor, but so what?

striderkaaru · Aug 10, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

guys... uhh..

what's fow armor...?

Theus · Aug 10, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Go and get the "Kind of a Big Deal" title.

That ,in my opinion, is far better accomplishment than some shitty looking armor.